Tell em why you mad, Father Figure

[Father Figure]

There comes a time in every man's life when he has to look in the mirror and ask himself the ultimate question.

"Am I being a hater?"

That's the question I was confronted with this week after being engaged in an online debate regarding the new 9th Wonder - Lil B collaboration.

If you missed it, 9th made a surprise announcement via twitter that he was working with the infamous Bay area rapper on a new song titled "Base 4 Your Face." He even went so far as to cosign Lil B's ability as an emcee, much to the chagrin of a lot of hip hop fans who were underwhelmed - and with good reason- by Lil B's previous musical offerings.

To be perfectly honest, my knowledge of Lil B was limited to a youtube video of him being sucker punched during a live interview ... and the intense criticism he always seemed to garner on hip hop message boards.

Therefore, based strictly on 9th's lofty praises for the kid, I decided to do some homework and see what all the fuss was about. Here's what I unearthed:



This was the first (and only) Lil B video that I was able to sit through. And, in my opinion, it told me all I need to know about the youngster.

I immediately went on twitter and voiced my displeasure, not only with Lil B's brand of hip hop, but the fact that a NC hip hop icon like 9th Wonder was basically wasting his time, endorsing that nonsense.

Jay Z once spit the line "what I eat, don't make you shit" - which basically means "why are you catching feelings over what someone else is doing, when it doesn't even directly impact you?"

So why then, was I, Father Figure, personally upset about the Lil B- 9th Wonder collaboration?

I guess my main reaction was not really hate, but more disappointment and frustration.

Everyone knows I'm a big supporter of NC hip hop and since launching this website last year I have come across a bunch of passionate artists from this state who continue to be overlooked. People who really take this art seriously and pour their hearts into every verse, every song, every mixtape.

People who have no shortage of talent, but struggle to earn a profit in this game and get their music heard by the general public.

These cats know they have to come correct every single time, because one misstep could torpedo their entire career.

Take for instance, our friend J Gunn.

This is a guy who has put out a excellent mixtape (The Sky), crafted a unique live show featuring a jazz band, competed successful in our Sweet 16s tournament, earned a spot in a national Trojan advertisment campaign, and even created a potential radio banger in the song "Flava Flav"

All that, and he still struggles to gain notoriety in his home state.

For artists like J Gunn, dropping a video like "Wonton Soup" would be akin to career suicide because it would make them seem wack and untalented. No industry head honchos would take them seriously. No prominent DJs or producers would want to work with them. As crowded as the NC hip hop scene is right now, a wack song like Wonton Soup would move them to the back of the line.

Flash forward to Wednesday night when 9th Wonder finally leaked the Base 4 Your Face track. Joining Lil B on the track was Phonte and Jean Grae - all of whom rhymed over a melodic, laid back beat with a somewhat catchy hook. Lil B delivered just an average verse, in my opinion, but considering how low he had previously set the bar, folks all over the Internet were now retweeting and declaring that "he went kinda hard".

Trust me: I can think of at least 10 emcees from the Sweet 16s tournament who could have spit over that track better and you can too. ( Just imagine Swayze Jones paired with Jean Grae and Phonte. Wowsers!)

Lil B chose to launch this silly base god movement and sound like a complete Sambo in most of his songs. That is the image he wholeheartedly adopted. No one forced him to do it.

What frustrates me is that 9th Wonder, a influential figure in the hip hop community and an actual teacher of the culture, devoted so much energy into promoting Lil B as an emcee and convincing fans to overlook his previous wackness. By not only producing, but advocating Lil B as an artist, he was basically advocating Lil B's dumbed downed approach to hip hop.

"Say whatever random thought that comes to mind. Don't worry about your flow or even riding the beat. Just be "based" and you'll soon get 1 million views on youtube!"

Guys like J Gunn, Kaze, A. Moss, Ricky Ruckus, ILLPO and Rain, are still waiting in line, constantly challenging themselves to create dope music ... and then you have an NC hip hop veteran like 9th Wonder basically launch a online PR campaign to re-invent some scrub rapper from California.

Call me a hater, but I have a problem with that.

[JIM D]

I agree with you 100%. Like I said on Twitter, I was really upset about that. I always looked at 9th Wonder like if anybody would keep it real, he would be this dude. He'd produced one of my favorite records of all time (Threats by Jay-Z). I knew I could always look to his music and production when I wanted to get that real hip hop fix. I just don't see how the Lil B collaboration fits in with what I thought 9th Wonder was about. Maybe I was wrong.

I understand that music is a business, hell I'm in a music business major. What I'm tripping on is how 9th Wonder is pushing Lil B as something that Lil B has spent almost a year trying NOT to be. That's where I get loss. It's whatever though, you picked a perfect quote from my favorite all time record from Jay "What you eat don't make me shit.."

Tell 9th Wonder NC is wondering... "Where's the love..."

[godmeta]

this collab was done purely for $. I would imagine 9th did this to try and get some of Lil B's fans.....but the people that like that wonton soup bullshit will NOT like this song. Sooooo bad marketing plan because these are not the same kind of fans. Souljah boy and Nas fanbase are NOT the same.

[Based mason Dixon]

Bruh, the fact that you said you watched "one" Lil B vid and knew all you needed to know...really makes your entire argument mute. really youre doin a blatant pre judgment with a formulated opinion. You my friend are the classic hiphop republican. and then you go on to describe "base" & why he does it? thats laughable. Full disclosure, my extent as a follower of 9th was the Jay Z & Murs joint for years, and just recently I happen to peep NC's Actual Proof...but after hearing "Base for your Face" im now adding jean Grae & Little Brother to my catalouge, and im the prime example of 9th's intent. So if you hate a new fan of NC music...then i guess u are a hater

[CaliforniaRareIsDead]

"Wonton Soup", "Ellen Degeneres" and "Hoes On My Dick" (in which Andy Milonakis wipes the floor with Lil Boss, surprising noone) are just one side of Lil B. He's being "Based", which I believe is code for being the WROAT... Worst Rapper of All Time. And he's doing it on purpose.

When Lil B actually TRIES, he can put together some pretty okay stuff for a slightly below average emcee. That's his dope stuff. The "Thank You Based God", "I Killed HipHop" "Exhibit Based" calibur verses. If any of your favorite rappers spit one of Lil B's slightly below average (but overwelmingly dope for "Wonton Soup" fans) verses, you'd immediately lose all faith in said rapper. And I understand the urge to lose faith in 9th & Jean for doing the track with him.

If you believe what he talks about in his songs, the only reason to cheer on Lil B is that if not for (the putrid garbage he's been passing off as rap music) hiphop where would a young black male from the hard streets of Berkeley be? You know, until you listen to one of his garbage songs and realize he probably does more damage as a rapper than any crack dealer, gang banger, stick-up kid ever will.

Lil B is as vapid as Paris Hilton, as down-to-earth as Mel Gibson, as street as Bill Gates and mature/conscious as a young Justin Bieber (like a 10-year-old Justin Beiber).

There's a ton of ill rappers in the Bay Area, and in California, and cats like Lil B and the people who promote them are inherently counterproductive to the movement.

[Chillbruhh]

Heres my thing, i was with 9th wonder the night before he released "base for your face" 9th took 4 hours out of his extremely busy day to come and talk to our crew about the rap game and how to be successful, and what we need to do get on living in a "hip-hop" deprived town like winston-salem, in addition 10 out of his 11 (the 11th being skyzoo) artist on his label iww are from North Carolina, so when you say "where is the love" you really need realize 9th is doing more than you could ever imagine. (even though im sure you know)
but on to lil b, we asked about the 9th X lil b track especially since a couple of us were Lil B fans, and the first thing 9th says is "THAT MAN CAN RHYME" which is evident, but he also said that lil b is one of the most intelligent 21 year olds he knows...
The thing about lil b is, his whole movement is planned, hes not a regular "punchline" or "flow" rapper, matter of fact lil b has created his OWN genre of hip hop, that has a huggee following, not because of a label or a cosign, or anything else but lil b's work ethic and talent, you may not understand it for like but Lil B is more complex than you think.
And in closing ANY artist from NC thats not "on" or "blown up" has to hold themselves accountable for that, i dont think its right to say "oh theres so many hungry talented artist from NC waiting to get on or ready to get on, because thats THEIR responsibility to do so"

-chill

[rocklspivey]

@chillbruh
Im one of those rappers that's waitin in line and its not just OUR responsibility. We need support, thats what it's all about. We get soo frustrated when people like Lil B get all the hype! Honestly, i'm not even a cocky guy (nor a heavy battler), but I STILL feel like I can out-rhyme him.
I get what you're sayin when you said he made his OWN branch of hip-hop, and I love when people are creative and different, but sometimes, it just gets too dumb. And well....i dont think his music is "smart"

Moving on to 9th.....
Maybe they had a secret session and Lil B just spit something INSANELY great haha. I dont really think it happened, but hey, I cant think of any other reasons that 9th would work with Lil B, just doesnt fit. Thats like Waka Flocka LAME making a song with Lupe Fiasco.

@chillbruh name the top 5 Lil B songs and i'll go listen to them all, THEN give another opinion.

[eargasment]

I look forward to the time when we can have spirited open debate about these things. We tend to automatically label those who like what we do not as dick riders and those that don't like what we do as haters. I had never listened to Lil B prior to this track so I had no preconceived notions about the guy. I gave the song an honest listen and I wasn't a fan. I like Jean Grae and Phontes verses but Lil B seemed off beat & all over the place. I respect the effort and the attempt to bridge the gap but it didn't work for me. I don't think that makes me a hater. Some people argue that those that don't like it went off of what they already heard about Lil B and dissed it before they actually listened. That is probably true. But at the same time on the opposite side of that there will be people that automatically cosign on it just because 9th Wonder produced it & Jean Grae and Phonte are on it. At the end of the day, anything done in the spirit of hip hop & advancing the music I support even if I don't particularly personally like the end product.

On another note I think the underground artists in NC need to focus more on brainstorming techniques for building a fanbase. I think sometimes we act like we are owed something from established artists from the area. It'd be nice if they'd show love & support consistently but we can't expect em to. At the end of the day its a rat race.

[chillbruhh]

rocklspivey

(before you read this i just want you to know, last year i HATED lil b the based god with all my soul for some of the same reasons your not a fan of his music)

I understand where your coming from, and i do agree WE do need support, just like 9th was giving us, and it is frustrating when wack artist like Waka Flocka Make millions screaming his brains off on a beat whens theres obviously to much going on, or when travis porter make millions "singing" or "harmonizing" in unison spitting the simplist lyrics in history, or even SOULJA BOY!,look how much money he has off of his dance songs, that man couldnt rap his way around a christmas present, but what you have to realize is there the FIRST to do it. Before soulja boy there where dance songs, but he really branded himself the dance song king, the same thing with travis porter, when i hear anyone else singing or "rapping" with that "futuristic swag" sound i say there biting off of travis porter, the same goes for flocka, you cant tell me any dude yelling "BOW BOW BOW" on a track isnt biting his style. But i say all this to come to ultimate truth, though it is not what we percieve as "real" hip hop, you almost have to respect the fact that they are the first to do it the way they have.

the same goes for lil b, nobody raps like lil b, his style of rap isnt punchlines and metaphors, its more abstract, but what i like about lil b more than anything is what he stands for. Lil b stands for hip hop and postivity and being different, lil b follows no mold or no template to rapping something we cannot say ourselves (or at least i cant) i kno as a rapper i was influenced by many artists like mos def, aesop rock, outkast, the cool kids, and many others, but when you listen to lil b you cant say he sounds like anyone other than himself, hes not a conventonal rapper, i think if you sat down and just listened to what hes saying in his mixtapes instead of looking for structure and hot punchlines youll understand what im talking about. LilBthebasedgod is creative.

heres some dope videos of his :
had too:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0&feature=fvst

walk the world:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cd2-BryIwFo

im god
www.youtube.com/watch?
v=ZG6zsHUCum4&feature=related

my history: (the message in this one is really good)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOj3slvPEdc&feature=more_related

-And for this dude to have so many fans and such a big following, he must be doing something right

-chill

[Father Figure]

First of all, I just want to thank everyone for taking the time to read and comment on this thread.

My reason for writing this editorial was not to really bash Lil B, but rather to state my disappointment and frustration that an NC hip hop pioneer like 9th Wonder was cosigning and promoting Lil B's brand of music.

This doesn't have as much to do with the base god movement as it has to do with the NC hip hop movement.

BTW: I can honestly appreciate people like chillbruh and Based Mason Dixon being fans of Lil B, but in my opinion his music pales in comparison to a number of NC artists who continue to fall under the radar.

It seems to me that 9th Wonder was more interested in Lil B's cult-like fan following and national media coverage than he was with his artistic ability. 9th even said in a recent interview that when they intially discussed the collaboration he told Lil B that he couldn't do any Wonton Soup-type songs.

Think about that for a minute.

How many producers do you know would tell a young artist they're working with that they can't sound the way they did on one of their most popular songs? The video for Wonton Soup has gotten over 1 million views on youtube. Like it or not, that's one of the most identifiable songs from his catalog. It's the ignorant songs like that which have sparked his popularity amongst a legion of young, impressionable fans. Not the ones found in the links that chillbruh posted. And honestly, those particular songs were still below average. The only reason those songs stand out is because the bar has already been lowered to ground level. If 9th couldn't see the artistic value and deeper meaner in a song like Wonton Soup, then why was he so interested in working with him to begin with?

9th and others have even stated that Lil B is a very intelligent emcee who only made songs like Wonton Soup and Ellen Degeneres just so people would notice him. They say he can actually rhyme when he wants to.

That, to me, is the most insulting thing about their whole support for Lil B. If he knows and can do better, but instead chose otherwise, then he is just being a Sambo.

Say what you want (and I am sure the Lil B fanatics will have a strong response to that label LOL!) but when you are an black entertainer who dumbs down your product just to appeal to the masses and fatten your pockets, then you are being a Sambo. Nothing more, nothing less.

The only method to your madness is obtaining more money and fame. The only gap you are trying to bridge is the gap between being broke and unknown to being fifthly rich and an internet sensation.

Our people have had a long, sad history of acting like jesters and coons just for America's enjoyment. Lil B is not the first Sambo, and he probably won't be the last.





I guess what really bothers me is that the same guy who produced a classic album titled "The Minstrel Show" was now pandering in the media and breaking his neck to endorse a modern day minstrel like Lil B.
.





I can't be the only person here who sees the irony in that.

[donTe Antonio]

I mean, I don't see this as bashing....
some people have pride for "HIP HOP" and you know what...
if people are brained washed to believe that his style of music is "hip hop" then I'd rather go Pop then

There is nothing wrong with voicing opinions about FACTS... and thats what you did Father Fig.

[Father Figure]

Still would love for 9th to give us a plausible explanation for why he felt the need to cosign this dude.

[Father Figure]

9th actually took time to address his collab with Lil B during the 4th Annual Hip Hop is Reality Summit, hosted by WSSU: